La ronde?swo17 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:13 amI think I just realized I have a new favorite subgenreSpoilerShowThe film could've easily followed her in the jacket for another hour, and ended up a nice parallel piece with In Fabric, which is also about multiple owners of a mysteriously alluring piece of apparel
Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
No problem, I was trying to say pretty much the same, that we can each have it according to our preferences, but it came out a bit blunt.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:59 amI don't see how they're mutually exclusive (being character-driven and also broad) and I wasn't trying to uproot you from said interpretation just trying to engage in discussion. However, in bringing up Dupieux's tendency toward "character-driven" weirdness, I'm more curious about and open-minded to your reading when looking at the inconsistency of bizarre in his milieu. While someone like Lanthimos may implement a more apparently consistent method across behavior, psychology, and lack of social skills in his bizarro worlds, Dupieux's lack of consistency in character creates an even more absurd world. While we get very little of the eccentricities of characters outside of the two leads, there is the night manager of the hotel, the prostitute, and even the hunter and his son who all present with their own kind of strange. And then there are all the people Jean Dujardin encounter who seem completely normal, though some of them maybe satirized around the lack of self-preservation when blinded by a moment of fame. That's a good point and one that I didn't really think about that creates even more vague possibilities at dissecting the film from a broad focal point or one of more concrete characterization like yours. Not as a replacement reading but as a complementing one, which I think is something this film affords and even welcomes.
I’m not sure I understand all of the points you are making, but here are some thoughts. I have only seen Dogtooth from Lanthimos, and even though I can appriciate his craft with actors, I was not intriqued by his vision or by the story. Maybe it was too blatantly psychological and satirical. Dupieux I find wonderful because he is not afraid to be inconsistent or incoherent if that means being spontanous and imaginative while still keeping the movie together with good characters. I like it when movies are more interested in luring the viewers inside the labyrinth than obsessing about showing the way out to wrap things up.
Have you seen Reality? It’s Dubieux’s most borgesian movie, a really fun and casual excercise in obsession and wildly looping metastuff.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I think I meant clothing horrorknives wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:34 pmLa ronde?swo17 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:13 amI think I just realized I have a new favorite subgenreSpoilerShowThe film could've easily followed her in the jacket for another hour, and ended up a nice parallel piece with In Fabric, which is also about multiple owners of a mysteriously alluring piece of apparel
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I'm thinking more of something like Killing of a Sacred Deer or The Lobster, where I think Lanthimos breathes more easily having fun with his worlds although he definitely has more of an urgency and calculated purpose in the story that drives the narrative by comparison. Even aside from these imaginative and creative details though, there is a consistency of profile in his characters' eccentric behaviors (obviously with some personality differences) as well as similarly hiveminded mentalities (which is also a theme throughout his work) that is a bit more grounded in a way and not exactly what we are getting with Dupieux, but they work for different reasons. The comparison was really to represent the differences of modern presentations of the absurd.Slaphappy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:12 pmI have only seen Dogtooth from Lanthimos, and even though I can appriciate his craft with actors, I was not intriqued by his vision or by the story. Maybe it was too blatantly psychological and satirical. Dupieux I find wonderful because he is not afraid to be inconsistent or incoherent if that means being spontanous and imaginative while still keeping the movie together with good characters. I like it when movies are more interested in luring the viewers inside the labyrinth than obsessing about showing the way out to wrap things up.
Have you seen Reality? It’s Dubieux’s most borgesian movie, a really fun and casual excercise in obsession and wildly looping metastuff.
I haven't seen Reality but I'm going to pick up the one blu-ray copy from my library network today -thanks for the rec!
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
That's something I don't need to leave the comfort of my wardrobe to experience.swo17 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:02 pmI think I meant clothing horrorknives wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:34 pmLa ronde?swo17 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 11:13 amI think I just realized I have a new favorite subgenreSpoilerShowThe film could've easily followed her in the jacket for another hour, and ended up a nice parallel piece with In Fabric, which is also about multiple owners of a mysteriously alluring piece of apparel
Yes, my wardrobe is very cozy, and no, you can't come in.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
How are your lion and witch, though?
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Narnia business.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Sounds good! I’ve been meaning to watch The Favourite and backtrack from there. Maybe I’ll get back to you someday on the subject. Btw, I noticed that Dupieux’s two first movies (and the fabulous Wrong Cops too) are on YouTube.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:56 pmI'm thinking more of something like Killing of a Sacred Deer or The Lobster, where I think Lanthimos breathes more easily having fun with his worlds although he definitely has more of an urgency and calculated purpose in the story that drives the narrative by comparison. Even aside from these imaginative and creative details though, there is a consistency of profile in his characters' eccentric behaviors (obviously with some personality differences) as well as similarly hiveminded mentalities (which is also a theme throughout his work) that is a bit more grounded in a way and not exactly what we are getting with Dupieux, but they work for different reasons. The comparison was really to represent the differences of modern presentations of the absurd.
I haven't seen Reality but I'm going to pick up the one blu-ray copy from my library network today -thanks for the rec!
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I had a look at Killing of a Sacred Deer to get the contrast. So about the presentations of absurd, I do think Dupieux’s incoherent approach works well and it’s is not limited to characters. Deerskin is first movie I’ve seen from him that does not look completely like it’s made by a diletant, but it still has outsider art appeal. I’m not saying Dupieux is a genius, but he does have in common with Borges that neither seems to stress too much about what a proper movie/novel should look like and that naturally goes well with absurdity.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:56 pmI'm thinking more of something like Killing of a Sacred Deer or The Lobster, where I think Lanthimos breathes more easily having fun with his worlds although he definitely has more of an urgency and calculated purpose in the story that drives the narrative by comparison. Even aside from these imaginative and creative details though, there is a consistency of profile in his characters' eccentric behaviors (obviously with some personality differences) as well as similarly hiveminded mentalities (which is also a theme throughout his work) that is a bit more grounded in a way and not exactly what we are getting with Dupieux, but they work for different reasons. The comparison was really to represent the differences of modern presentations of the absurd.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I agree with that assessment, and having seen Reality second your thoughts there as well. There are some great satirical expositions but the ensuing narrative labyrinths reach nonsensical in ways that can only be met with a shrug toward absurdist acceptance rather than meticulous analysis. I loved it.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
True! I think satire is hard genre because it can get too obvious really easy. Maybe Dupieux’s absurdism is just the thing to balance it. I love it how enthusiastic the main character is in Reality about coming up the right groan. He’s embracing the absurd demands of his producer instead of fighting them.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I think Deerskin works as satire because its premise is so off the wall that the satire becomes kind of nebulous. There's no direct, obvious, one-to-one correlation between the antics of the film and a real-life analogue, so the critique becomes free-form, easily personalized by the viewer, and ultimately more about human behaviour in general. The other strength of the film is that, once it establishes its ridiculous premise, it follows through on it with an internal logic. It doesn't even really dip into surrealism or dream logic: the grotesqueness is just sort of squalid and ordinary.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Good points! I watched Dupieux’s debut feature Steak. He’s become way better since at making his ideas both more hazy and more focused at the same time. In Reality and Deerskin he does a wonderful job at presenting the theme through by immersing the viewer into the mindset of the central character. It’s been years since I saw Wrong Cops, but in it the theme comes out pretty late and very surprisingly after the viewer has been sucked into the absurd world.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
My response after viewing the second time was that this film worked on the surface as theatre of the absurd but deeper down at the level of an allegory. One should take it viewed through the lens of the film-maker's relationship to their art and how the art changed towards degradation and violence once money became involved.
Ultimately the filmmaker would have to answer to the powers who controlled the chequebook if he was going to make his film. People in the "sane" world (his wife) wanted nothing to do with him.
On another level, the main character slowly by his equally obsessed co-conspirator.
The jacket was a better fit for her anyway.
Ultimately the filmmaker would have to answer to the powers who controlled the chequebook if he was going to make his film. People in the "sane" world (his wife) wanted nothing to do with him.
On another level, the main character slowly
SpoilerShow
metamorphosed into a deer piece by piece every time another layer of deerskin was added to the wardrobe, a man slowly transformed into nature. The main character represents humankind's brutal assault on the earth. He steals, he litters, he lies, defiles a corpse, he commits the ultimate heinous act of multiple murders with impunity because he is an "alpha" a human and above the law. The stealing of jackets (skinning of animals) was the ego trip of society saying we are exclusive we are above all creatures. The main character was literally "skinning" his victims to feed his narcissistic or fetishistic hunger. The irony is that by indulging in his desires unbridled he loses himself eventually and becomes his obsession, a deer, in the end, screaming "shoot me! shoot me!" and thus is treated as a deer by the hunter in the final scene. He is slaughtered and then skinned
The jacket was a better fit for her anyway.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Pretty neat poster.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Saw this tonight and pretty much loved it, although many I was with walked out about halfway through. I do think the subtitles missed a trick, though: in reference to mkochsch’s post above...
SpoilerShow
Georges’s final cry was translated literally as “film me! Film me!,” which made me miss the “shoot” pun completely until I read through this thread. It definitely helps make more sense of the ending.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
This is available to rent online from my local theatre and probably yours too, for those who haven’t seen it yet (and you can go to AFI Silver or Alamo’s site if there’s no local option for you)
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Thanks for pointing that out, Dom. Just checked and my local venue has it available this Saturday
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I like the idea that my shitty local 5-screen theater somehow would've played this under normal circumstances
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Somehow last week's US release was DVD-only. Jeesh.
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
Sigh. And it looks like the French BD doesn't have English subtitles
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Re: Le daim [Deerskin] (Quentin Dupieux, 2019)
I just noticed that Umbrella put out an English-subtitled Blu-ray of this film in Australia!