Lars von Trier
- martin
- Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:16 am
- Contact:
Re: Lars von Trier
For the Danes: Element of Crime (HD) is on dr.dk until 24th of January. Breaking the Waves too but that already has a BD release.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Manderlay
I don't think anything can beat Dogville at von Trier's best, but Manderlay gets better and better every revisit. It's such a rich film- that's painstakingly relevant today in the era of rampant viral publishings from privileged liberals hijacking social justice causes to indulge their self-actualizations- building upon the "arrogance" speech of the prior film (and proving, with the substitution of a younger physical actor to seethe its cynical view on anti-growth with bodily amnesia, that Grace has learned nothing from her last venture). Beyond its cheeky provocations at intent, there is a doubling-down on the Hobbesian nature of man from Dogville whereby -instead of offering examples of pleasures the townsfolk achieve from their deviance (through rape, revenge, small acts of empowered entitlements)- these same dynamic shifts grant none of the characters any fulfillment, not even fleeting lifts. The message is clear, and as static and docile as the residents' temperaments in limbo: that stratified social order and being informed of one's identity is better than freedom, which unveils all the hell of nature without any of the benefits.
I love how von Trier compares sex and freedom, with Grace fantasizing about sex with Timothy to climax in her idealistic dreams but the real thing is empty, violent, and harrowing- effectively mirroring the physical freedom of the slaves that is only liberating in theory. These natural urges to connect intimately, or to be emancipated from restraints, do not translate into cathartic outcomes in corporeal terms. The film's pessimism is rooted in pragmatic sociopolitical philosophy, rather than the more psychologically-resonant Dogville where characters hide their emotional cores behind their philosophies. Manderlay suggests that these emotions may not even be man's essence, but a faux-privilege to live a dream outside the system and yet one that destroys the very souls the self constructs with naivete. This idea is personified in Tom Edison and Grace- the latter in both films, and by no coincidence the most privileged main character in each. As a result, Manderlay is a much colder film- at least Dogville believes that the impulses we feel and suppress are natural and capable of giving us gratification!
And to top it all off, the most 'passionate' moment in the film occurs at the end with Grace handling the whip, in a stirring sober revelation that even the oppressive slave-pushing whites she "liberated" these marginalized folks from were just mechanically following rules, that were reciprocally-valuable outside of her solipsistic scope. The only person who emotionally goes off the rails is the very one who sought to free people towards emotions, believing the ability to demonstrate authentic emotion a universal goal when they're the assessed weakness, and either resiliently or inherently artificial, to the foreign social context she invades. What a great argument for antihumanism, and a reflective nightmare in signaling the weakest character as the one most interested in our own moral blueprints.
Also, surely there's no greater or more acidic jab at democracy than the quick-vote to banish the genial man from laughing as soon as the practice is established, efficiently extinguishing the only expresser of insular joy found in the entire film!
I don't think anything can beat Dogville at von Trier's best, but Manderlay gets better and better every revisit. It's such a rich film- that's painstakingly relevant today in the era of rampant viral publishings from privileged liberals hijacking social justice causes to indulge their self-actualizations- building upon the "arrogance" speech of the prior film (and proving, with the substitution of a younger physical actor to seethe its cynical view on anti-growth with bodily amnesia, that Grace has learned nothing from her last venture). Beyond its cheeky provocations at intent, there is a doubling-down on the Hobbesian nature of man from Dogville whereby -instead of offering examples of pleasures the townsfolk achieve from their deviance (through rape, revenge, small acts of empowered entitlements)- these same dynamic shifts grant none of the characters any fulfillment, not even fleeting lifts. The message is clear, and as static and docile as the residents' temperaments in limbo: that stratified social order and being informed of one's identity is better than freedom, which unveils all the hell of nature without any of the benefits.
I love how von Trier compares sex and freedom, with Grace fantasizing about sex with Timothy to climax in her idealistic dreams but the real thing is empty, violent, and harrowing- effectively mirroring the physical freedom of the slaves that is only liberating in theory. These natural urges to connect intimately, or to be emancipated from restraints, do not translate into cathartic outcomes in corporeal terms. The film's pessimism is rooted in pragmatic sociopolitical philosophy, rather than the more psychologically-resonant Dogville where characters hide their emotional cores behind their philosophies. Manderlay suggests that these emotions may not even be man's essence, but a faux-privilege to live a dream outside the system and yet one that destroys the very souls the self constructs with naivete. This idea is personified in Tom Edison and Grace- the latter in both films, and by no coincidence the most privileged main character in each. As a result, Manderlay is a much colder film- at least Dogville believes that the impulses we feel and suppress are natural and capable of giving us gratification!
And to top it all off, the most 'passionate' moment in the film occurs at the end with Grace handling the whip, in a stirring sober revelation that even the oppressive slave-pushing whites she "liberated" these marginalized folks from were just mechanically following rules, that were reciprocally-valuable outside of her solipsistic scope. The only person who emotionally goes off the rails is the very one who sought to free people towards emotions, believing the ability to demonstrate authentic emotion a universal goal when they're the assessed weakness, and either resiliently or inherently artificial, to the foreign social context she invades. What a great argument for antihumanism, and a reflective nightmare in signaling the weakest character as the one most interested in our own moral blueprints.
Also, surely there's no greater or more acidic jab at democracy than the quick-vote to banish the genial man from laughing as soon as the practice is established, efficiently extinguishing the only expresser of insular joy found in the entire film!
- Big Ben
- Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:54 pm
- Location: Great Falls, Montana
Re: Lars von Trier
I remember seeing Manderlay for the first time and not really vibing with it until the very end when the end just sort of smacked me upside the head. I can't remember the specifics but the quote at the end of the film but it was something to the effect of "America is not ready to accept black people." I look back on that quote everytime I remember this film and it just feels more and more relevant with each passing year particularly after the entire event that was 2020. It's not a message a lot of people like hearing but it's an ugly truth I'm glad von Trier was willing to talk about.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Can anybody speak to the quality (and/or removability of subs) on either the German or Japanese blu-rays of Dancer in the Dark?
From what I've gathered online, the German blu has optional subs but some minor inconsistent color tweaking issues, while the Japanese blu has far more egregious color saturation concerns and no info on optional subs, though I'm more interested in opinions from folks here
From what I've gathered online, the German blu has optional subs but some minor inconsistent color tweaking issues, while the Japanese blu has far more egregious color saturation concerns and no info on optional subs, though I'm more interested in opinions from folks here
- aox
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 12:02 pm
- Location: nYc
Re: Lars von Trier
I really hope he makes the third film, Wasington (or, is it actually "Washington"?)
I check once a year generally to see if there is any movement, but it just doesn't look like it's going to happen.
I check once a year generally to see if there is any movement, but it just doesn't look like it's going to happen.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Same, though I will gladly accept the third series of Riget instead
- jegharfangetmigenmyg
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:52 am
Re: Lars von Trier
I have both editions, and both have optional subs. The German one also has English subs for the Danish commentary track. Regarding the quality, I would say that both editions look awful and washed out, but I think this has to do with the source material, and I think that Von Trier was specifically aiming for this "ugly" Dogme-like documentary look. I also have the director approved Danish dvd edition, and that one look most like the German blu-ray, even though I would actually say that maybe it looks better than the blu-ray, color/image-wise, but not encoding-wise, of course. To me it looks like the Japanese edition has been tampered with; it looks like they have tried to make it look more film-like in the classic sense, which is does, but I don't think that this was Von Trier's intention. On the other hand, the German edition has crushed and grey'ish blacks which neither the Japanese edition nor the Danish dvd has. But maybe the latter has to do with compression. I don't know.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:26 pmCan anybody speak to the quality (and/or removability of subs) on either the German or Japanese blu-rays of Dancer in the Dark?
From what I've gathered online, the German blu has optional subs but some minor inconsistent color tweaking issues, while the Japanese blu has far more egregious color saturation concerns and no info on optional subs, though I'm more interested in opinions from folks here
To sum it up, I think that the German edition is probably closest to the director's intentions. Even though the Japanese one looks better, classically speaking. If that makes sense.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Thanks jegharfangetmigenmyg, I really appreciate that rundown! I've only seen the R1 DVD and the German blu looks considerably lighter- which is bothersome (I don't see any caps online about the Japanese blu or any extras on the disc), but on the other hand I really want to hear the von Trier commentary on the German disc which might be the selling point for me. Still, the film has always seemed intended to be a bit darker.. even though von Trier approved the German blu
- jegharfangetmigenmyg
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:52 am
Re: Lars von Trier
You're welcome. And no, the Japanese edition doesn't have any extras apart from the trailer. There's a Japanese dub, though, which I found very strange. Actually, there is a comparison of the two blu-rays online here: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?d1=4549&d2=4543&c=1861therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:03 pmThanks jegharfangetmigenmyg, I really appreciate that rundown! I've only seen the R1 DVD and the German blu looks considerably lighter- which is bothersome (I don't see any caps online about the Japanese blu or any extras on the disc), but on the other hand I really want to hear the von Trier commentary on the German disc which might be the selling point for me. Still, the film has always seemed intended to be a bit darker.. even though von Trier approved the German blu
Clearly, the Japanese image is a lot less noisier and it has a strong pink tinge. But, as I mentioned in my previous post, I believe that the noisy digital image was what Von Trier intended. Or at least he shot the film this way, knowing that it would have the same aesthetic as The Idiots. It's just that this doesn't translate too well to blu-ray or what an audience would define as "high definition". The film was shot on early generation Sony DV Cams with custom anamorphic lenses so I don't think it will ever look "good".
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Thanks again- it's funny because the Japanese blu looks to be more correct regarding color timing- or at least darker like the R1 DVD (which retains that intended aesthetic) - but like you say it's also cleaned up beyond that.. while the German blu seems way too bright for the tone of the film, but retains more of that DVDs aesthetic. Touch choice- I guess I'll go German
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Although von Trier often imbues his work with twisted humor (reaching a peak with The House That Jack Built, which I’d argue is primarily a self-immolating comedy), Riget (aka The Kingdom) is my favorite of his lighter comedic works, the ones that don’t hide the amusement in shadier material. It’s basically a combination of soap opera satire targeting bureaucratic office politics, supernatural happenings and lore steaming from the haunted hospital. It’s a lot of fun, highly recommended.
- jegharfangetmigenmyg
- Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:52 am
Re: Lars von Trier
Riget is probably also my Von Trier favorite, and you're right TWBB. Being a Dane, I also especially enjoy the sometimes not so subtle and sarcastic, very Danish humor that maybe doesn't translate too well, internationally. But the series is probably the best representatin of Von Trier's dark humor and idiosyncratic style. By the way, I believe, and rumor has it, that the original series will be re-released along with the premiere of the third series. They were already working on the restauration back in 2013 when I visited Zentropa, his production company, and it has yet to surface.
Regarding his later filmography, I very much liked Nymphomaniac, which to me felt like a final film for him, summing up and referencing all of his films as it went along. I saw it at its galla premiere here in Copenhagen with Von Trier present, and it was really something to feel the audience squirm during the abortion scene. Some walked out, and a woman passed out when she was leaving. Such drama. The film itself felt like a real magnum opus to me, so I was kinda disappointed when it was mostly panned and not viewed by too many due to its seemingly (but not actually) exhausting length.
The House That Jack Built on the other hand, I found to a terrible and not funny self-parody, a real stinker, save for the Medea-referencing elysium section which was quite striking. His worst, and least interesting, film in my opionion. I also noticed that he didn't do anything new or change his tone from Nymphomaniac, whereas he usually takes a complete left-turn from film to film. That, to me, felt like he was running out of inspiration, so I was happy to hear it when he announced that he was taking a break from full length features because he is no longer up to it, physically. Back then, he said that he was planning to make 10 etudes; meaning 10 minute short films shot in black and white which I found very intriguing and very Von Trier dogmatic. But I guess Riget 3 will do as well, even though I'm sceptical.
Regarding his later filmography, I very much liked Nymphomaniac, which to me felt like a final film for him, summing up and referencing all of his films as it went along. I saw it at its galla premiere here in Copenhagen with Von Trier present, and it was really something to feel the audience squirm during the abortion scene. Some walked out, and a woman passed out when she was leaving. Such drama. The film itself felt like a real magnum opus to me, so I was kinda disappointed when it was mostly panned and not viewed by too many due to its seemingly (but not actually) exhausting length.
The House That Jack Built on the other hand, I found to a terrible and not funny self-parody, a real stinker, save for the Medea-referencing elysium section which was quite striking. His worst, and least interesting, film in my opionion. I also noticed that he didn't do anything new or change his tone from Nymphomaniac, whereas he usually takes a complete left-turn from film to film. That, to me, felt like he was running out of inspiration, so I was happy to hear it when he announced that he was taking a break from full length features because he is no longer up to it, physically. Back then, he said that he was planning to make 10 etudes; meaning 10 minute short films shot in black and white which I found very intriguing and very Von Trier dogmatic. But I guess Riget 3 will do as well, even though I'm sceptical.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
I also like Nymphomaniac, which sees von Trier- significantly sober (at least during the bulk of the writing process)- finally embrace (to the fullest extent that he/one can) his Sisyphean mental health issues, particularly using his addiction struggles as a path to self-deprecation. The film balances comedy and drama better than The House That Jack Built, but I feel the latter film takes this idea much further, and becomes an entirely different film. Nymphomaniac has a far more compassionate tone towards its protagonist as a von Trier stand-in, while von Trier clearly identifies with Jack, but never stops to validate his methods to make sense of his ego complex. Actually, as I mentioned in the linked writeup, von Trier draws a distinction in Nymphomaniac about the idea of self-awareness as a thesis- seeing the introspection as a key to growth and stunting one's defective characteristics, even if an imperfect and impermanent one- so to create a character who never stops to venture beyond the myopia of his own vision, he takes the priest's fatal flaws from the former film and makes an entire movie about it. I also had the pleasure of watching Jack on the 'one-night-only' theatrical screening in the states, and have a hard time remembering an audience laughing so often in cohesion, so when I revisited the film on blu-ray by myself it lost a significant amount of the energy that made is so special, which stemmed from that collective experience.
- The Fanciful Norwegian
- Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:24 pm
- Location: Teegeeack
Re: Lars von Trier
Von Trier announces Parkinson's diagnosis
This isn't a tremendous shock in light of his recent appearances, but still a bummer.
This isn't a tremendous shock in light of his recent appearances, but still a bummer.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Yeah, given his substance use history, I had assumed his presentation before the uncut theatrical screening of The House That Jack Built was solely due to alcohol withdrawal. Very sad
- ianthemovie
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:51 am
- Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Lars von Trier
A new 4K restoration of Dogville is apparently now playing on MUBI. Some reflections on the film's 20th anniversary by Chloe Sevigny and Stellan Skarsgard.
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- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am
Re: Lars von Trier
probably the MUBI (is it a stream ?) it's not available from France.ianthemovie wrote: ↑Sat Apr 15, 2023 8:33 pmA new 4K restoration of Dogville is apparently now playing on MUBI. Some reflections on the film's 20th anniversary by Chloe Sevigny and Stellan Skarsgard.
I think that a 4K restoration will remind me the theatrical release of this movie, when I saw it in theaters in France.
So far I have bought the German blu-ray which was a significant improvement over the Arte DVD.
-
- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am
Re: Lars von Trier
Is the MUBI restoration of "Dogville" out ? I can't see it from France.
On the other side "Manderlay" is available now as 1080 WEB release. Contrary to "Dogville" which is available on blu-ray in Germany (I had bought it), Manderlay as far as I can tell as only been released on DVD so far.
On the other side "Manderlay" is available now as 1080 WEB release. Contrary to "Dogville" which is available on blu-ray in Germany (I had bought it), Manderlay as far as I can tell as only been released on DVD so far.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
Yeah the German blu of Dogville is great (curious how much better this film can look, given the materials?) but Manderlay is sorely underappreciated and would be welcome on blu
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- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am
Re: Lars von Trier
a quick look at Mubi's "Manderlay" 1080 : more digital "true" grain than on "Dogville", great HD details when close-ups, or some "views from the top/sky"; depending of the lights.therewillbeblus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 10:13 pmYeah the German blu of Dogville is great (curious how much better this film can look, given the materials?) but Manderlay is sorely underappreciated and would be welcome on blu
That makes me think that the 4K restoration of "Dogville" could be close and somehow different than the German Blu-Ray. Remember that Dogville had a particular care for lightening some particular scenes and in Manderlay there are some "pictures" inserts like on The House That Jack Built.
It could look damned good with a great 4K restoration on a UHD disk. With a retro-projector or a big screen I will re-experience it like when I saw it in theaters.
I remember how amazed I was to watch the restoration of "Breaking The Waves" on Criterion blu-ray. One of the best transfer of that year.
- ianthemovie
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:51 am
- Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Lars von Trier
It appears to be currently streaming on MUBI's site, and is listed as being in 4K, but I'm not a subscriber so I can't comment on what the restoration looks like. Maybe someone who has a MUBI account can weigh in on this.Rupert Pupkin wrote: ↑Sun Apr 23, 2023 7:45 pmIs the MUBI restoration of "Dogville" out ? I can't see it from France.
EDIT: I haven't checked out the German Blu-ray of this; I was thinking of the Dutch version and got confused.
- criterionsnob
- Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:23 am
- Location: Canada
Re: Lars von Trier
I’ve just sampled it, but the Mubi 4K stream of Dogville looks great. I’ve only ever seen this on DVD so it’s a huge improvement.
- therewillbeblus
- Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:40 pm
Re: Lars von Trier
I really hope Mubi gives these LvT restorations physical releases - still patiently waiting on Riget news
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- Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:34 am
Re: Lars von Trier
so Dogville is available through Mubi in 2160 (new 4K restoration) whilst Manderlay it's available in 1080 only ? (I only watched Manderlay and it looks to me like it's a new restoration)
How can I tell from France if a movie, listed with trailer at Mubi will be available in a next not so distant future ?
For instance, Michel Franco's movies : https://mubi.com/fr/films/daniel-ana
Daniel y Ana is listed with a trailer but unavailable and they suggest "Despuès de Lucia" which is available (but is already out on blu-ray in France).
And when I type "Kechiche", even Mektoub My Love Intermezzo is listed with a page. And "L'Esquive" which is one of my favorite movie but got a really poor DVD in France despite all the prices, even the trailer on the DVD looked better than the main feature.
How can I tell from France if a movie, listed with trailer at Mubi will be available in a next not so distant future ?
For instance, Michel Franco's movies : https://mubi.com/fr/films/daniel-ana
Daniel y Ana is listed with a trailer but unavailable and they suggest "Despuès de Lucia" which is available (but is already out on blu-ray in France).
And when I type "Kechiche", even Mektoub My Love Intermezzo is listed with a page. And "L'Esquive" which is one of my favorite movie but got a really poor DVD in France despite all the prices, even the trailer on the DVD looked better than the main feature.