Vinegar Syndrome et al.

[tenia]

There are some hyperboles, I think, as VS's practices seem to be mostly limited to them and not spreading that much.

This being written, I do think, like others, like specialised boards like here can provide what can be factual informations about a specific business' practices, and enlighten consumers who might want to vote and support some practices and not others with their wallets.

I used to buy a lot from VS, but have reduced that a lot because, like others, the rate of stuff I didn't find that interesting was just way too high to keep going at this pace. Still, I do think they're doing great preservation work, though it's on movies many wouldn't deem that prioritary to work on. But somebody's handling them, doing them good, I think it's a positive. But I too think they went from being some smaller quirky label to some huge powerhouse, and their practices evolved with that (including becoming cardboard sellers). Again, I do think it can be fair for US rightholders to ensure what doesn't have US rights isn't sold in the US because, well, it contractually shouldn't, but VS is sold in France for instance, or in the UK, though Diabolik-like stores (and I do know at least one label that wasn't happy when a foreign label rushed the announcement of their domestic release very quickly after the French label, as it clearly wasn't a coincidental timing - I can't remember if the foreign label was VS or not, my memory tells me Yes, but I don't remember the title so I can't check). So it goes both ways, and if a label only wants to make that one-way, it's only fair for a specialised topic to have potential consumers be aware of this, so they can buy (or not) knowing this.

We have in Europe a few labels I don't buy from because I don't like their practices, just like there are some movies I'm not buying or reviewing because I don't want to give these money or visibility. It's OK, IMO, to also include practices in what you want to support or not.

[Cash Flagg]

If you catch RareWaves during one of their monthly or so discount codes, it’s a good deal for international releases and shipping is a flat fee

RWTEN gives you 10% off over 20 pounds through 9/30.

[luxta]

My main gripe before this whole fiasco was the fact that they just put out a lot of crap.

I love exploitation and horror

[TechnicolorAcid]

My main gripe before this whole fiasco was the fact that they just put out a lot of crap.

I love exploitation and horror

Good on you.

[Matt]

Is one of the benefits of OCN distribution / VS partner labels that they provide a kind of end-to-end operation from authoring to duplication to distribution? I can see that being appealing to small labels that are just 1-2 people, even if they take a significant percentage of sales. I appreciate that labels like Deaf Crocodile and Altered Innocence might outgrow the arrangement, but on the other hand I am much less aware of what they are releasing and when.

[PfR73]

I do not think they are doing authoring. Factory 25 consistently uses Dolby Digital audio whereas if VS was doing the authoring, it'd probably be lossless. I contacted VS awhile back b/c their website was listing the audio of some F25 releases as DTS-HD, but they turned out to only be Dolby Digital. VS said they were only listing what Factory 25 told them and I should contact F25. The IFC release of Claire Denis' "Bastards" has been reported to use a bad master and has burned-in subtitles when they had been reported to be optional, and when a user contacted VS, they were told they needed to contact IFC.

[ryannichols7]

On the other hand, VS was able to cough up the dough to release Singapore Sling, a title I believe Fran mentioned was impossibly expensive to clear the rights for. So they presumably are doing some good putting their money to use by releasing some stuff that other labels might not be able to muster the capital to put out

and that's certainly cool! the much wished for Looking for Mr. Goodbar is another one they've teased apparently, and you'll find posts on this forum from eons ago wishing for that to be rescued (at the time, by Criterion, though unlikely now)

In what way are VS the “biggest threat to the boutique market in the United States”?

Did VS hold a gun to Film Movement’s head and tell them to join or die? Were Deaf Croc and Fun City prevented from leaving?

Surely the biggest threat to the US boutique market is streaming, shrinking numbers of disc manufacturers etc?

they're just clearly marketing for a collecting audience rather than a consuming one if you ask me. to me, they appeal stronger to the people who leave everything in shrinkwrap rather than watch the discs. they have no problem charging high prices for a lot of their releases and I fear that'll only get worse, which sure, it's their right and clearly people will pay it. they aren't alone in this as we've noted upthread, but considering they keep absorbing the smaller labels and distributors, it's not really reassuring. plus they're scalper friendly, and that's the last thing we need. sabotaging indie store sales is pretty unacceptable too, and the fact that they are noted by one of these stores as the only label doing this, means they're the only ones trying to monopolize the way they are. as I've noted on this board, Criterion and Kino have no problem sharing extras with the UK labels (The Great Escape, announced today by Arrow, contains extras produced by each label), let alone their product being sold in the US. Vinegar Syndrome bullying these stores not to while having the audacity to say this in a public forum is galling.

sure those are threats, but this is a label creating their own threats

Is one of the benefits of OCN distribution / VS partner labels that they provide a kind of end-to-end operation from authoring to duplication to distribution? I can see that being appealing to small labels that are just 1-2 people, even if they take a significant percentage of sales. I appreciate that labels like Deaf Crocodile and Altered Innocence might outgrow the arrangement, but on the other hand I am much less aware of what they are releasing and when.

the esteemed "operations manager" says all the time that the labels are the labels and VS just puts out what they give them. I think the big advantage in signing on for VS is getting access to an obsessive fanbase that buys the product regardless of whether they're interested in it or not

[pianocrash]

sure those are threats, but this is a label creating their own threats

Remember folks: conspiracy is, oftentimes, the last refuge for personal agency.

On scapling: try meeting a Hot Wheels collector in real life, and watch your life change. Furthermore, anyone that really needs a lenticular RAD poster should probably pay $300 for the pleasure.

On JLaLibs: he's actually just you and/or most of us, but can write off his physical media purchases for business expenses. Geeks are only as powerful as you let them be...in your mindspace.

On Goodbar: of course, it's coming! But your wallet-to-scumbag ratio may pinch a bit (but only when Joe Rubin laughs).

On hyperbole: most reddit forums are really just Hot Wheels forums in disguise, but that's something we all have to eventually figure out for ourselves.

[Cash Flagg]

an obsessive fanbase that buys the product regardless of whether they're interested in it or not

Ask yourself this: who is more pathetic? Someone so obsessed with a label that they collect and then never watch any their releases, or someone so obsessed with a label that they continuously spout vague, unsubstantiated, and wildly melodramatic conspiracy theories in a thread devoted to a label, that, by their own admission, they don't own a single release from?. At least the collectors that you so broadly denigrate are (mostly) cheerful about their obsession. Believe me - one-note, bitter would-be elitists with recyled Ozu avatars are as common, and as useless, as any VS fanboy.

[ryannichols7]

an obsessive fanbase that buys the product regardless of whether they're interested in it or not

Ask yourself this: who is more pathetic? Someone so obsessed with a label that they collect and then never watch any their releases, or someone so obsessed with a label that they continuously spout vague, unsubstantiated, and wildly melodramatic conspiracy theories in a thread devoted to a label, that, by their own admission, they don't own a single release from?. At least the collectors that you so broadly denigrate are (mostly) cheerful about their obsession. Believe me - one-note, bitter would-be elitists with recyled Ozu avatars are as common, and as useless, as any VS fanboy.

as I stated above, I own plenty of partner releases, which I had to purchase from their Bridgeport warehouse. even if I don't own a mainline vinegar syndrome release, I have the right to complain about this whole "OCN Distribution" thing and it's practices. you can claim I'm not cheerful but I have plenty of positive things here to say about the labels I do collect from, and have complained about Criterion, Arrow, etc in the past. constructive criticism is healthy, we pay a lot of money for these products, and not being able to buy products from some labels here in the US from the smaller, independent stores I want to support, is the issue I have here. Arrow have improved on a lot of things, for example, and I think due in large part because they listen to their fanbase as best they can (not counting the stuff THG force on them)

call me one note, bitter, and useless all you want (didn't realize namecalling was accepted), but my posting across this board and contributions to the list projects and various votes will disprove you. I make a range of different posts in this forum and discuss the films when my thoughts allow me to write a solid post (I don't just copy and paste my letterboxd entries) about them. and insulting my avatar is just weird. I've tried to upload a different one but this board is picky about what it'll take. I'd rather have one from Equinox Flower, personally

[domino harvey]

Cash Flagg: do not continue your behavior of making personal attacks on members here if you wish to remain a member yourself. You are allowed to defend VS, and others are allowed to criticize them. If you find this topic so difficult to stay even-keeled about, perhaps take a break from reading this thread